I recently bought a Roland CR-78. It’s an old drum machine from the 80’s, the first one from Roland that let you program and save your own patterns instead of just using presets. We used samples of it on both our first album and the last EP, it has some great drum sounds that we keep falling back on. I’ve wanted one for a long time, and have been patiently waiting to find one in nice condition at a decent price. Unfortunately for me, like a lot of other vintage analog gear, the prices have just continued to go up. Finally, I said screw it and bought one anyway.
Now that I have the real thing, I’ve found it’s pretty fun to play with, cool and quirky looking, and sounds great. The biggest problem is the programmer device that you need to program it is pretty rare and ends up being almost as expensive as the currently rather overpriced CR-78 itself. The programmer also seems kind of tedious to use, it’s a manual note by note step editor rather than the x0x type sequencer that Roland developed soon afterwards for the TR-606 and TR-808, so you have to pre-plan the pattern in your head and then enter things into it in sequential order: hit, rest, rest, rest, hit, rest, hit, etc.
Anyway, using Google and reading up about programming the CR-78 on various sites across the net, I found there was no good solid explanation for how to program the thing sans programmer. One person mentioned they used a pedal in the programmer slot to record notes in real time; I’m a techno geek who sequences everything, so that didn’t really appeal to me except as a last resort. Another person mentioned they used their computer’s sequencer to send out audio clicks to the CR-78 and program it. That was getting warmer, but still wasn’t exactly what I wanted.
(Edit: After searching through the Analog Heaven mailing list archives, I have found several people suggesting a similar approach using the trigger outs of synced up analog drum machines, including a message from Mike Peake back in 1998. The Electribe/Kenton setup I’m using has some advantages given its cost, sequencer memory and timing flexibility, but I am definitely not the first to suggest using the x0x sequencer of another drum machine to program the CR-78.)
I had already used my Kenton Pro Solo mk2 to sync up the CR-78 with MIDI clock. Note that the CR-78 uses a 1/4″ clock input and a non-standard 12cpqn clock, unlike the DIN SYNC used for the TR-606, TR-808 and other drum machines, which is why I had to use the Kenton. I also already had an Electribe ER-1, which is a cool little drum machine with a fantastic x0x style sequencer interface that sends MIDI. My thinking was: if a pedal could program the CR-78 in real time, surely a gate signal from the Kenton could do the same, and maybe I could sync everything up and then use the sequencer of the Electribe to clock and trigger the Kenton which would in turn clock and trigger the CR-78, resulting in a nice x0x interface for the CR-78.
After some experimentation, I got it all to work. As a bonus, I found I can play an extra realtime part on the CR-78 using the Electribe sequencer, giving me a total of five simultaneous sequenced CR-78 parts (four triggered internally by the CR-78, one externally by the Electribe). Also, the CR-78 only has enough internal memory to save four different two bar patterns, but I found that by saving the patterns internally in the Electribe and then dumping/programming them into the CR-78 as needed I now have access to a lot more stored patterns.
So, here’s the procedure I used to get it all to work:
PART 1 – Sync the Electribe up with the CR-78
Hook the Electribe MIDI OUT to the Kenton MIDI IN with a MIDI cable.
Hook the Kenton AUX 1 (CLOCK) to the CR-78 EXT CLOCK with a 1/8″ to 1/4″ patch cable.
Next we need to configure the Kenton and the Electribe so they can communicate correctly:
Set Parameter 1 of the Kenton to 1. This sets MIDI channel to 1.
Set Parameter 20 of the Kenton to CL. This sets the AUX 1 port to output clock.
Set Parameter 41 of the Kenton to 2. This sets the clock to 12 cpqn, which is what the CR-78 uses.
Set the MIDI channel of the Electribe to 1. Press MIDI pad, choose top parameter, set to 1.
Set the MIDI filter of the Electribe to send everything. Press MIDI pad, choose fourth down parameter, set to three ovals.
Set the clock of the Electribe to internal. Press Global pad, choose fourth parameter down, set to int.
Now, make a completely blank pattern in the Electribe with all steps for all instruments empty. Set the pattern length to 1 and use a pattern scale of 16th notes. Read the Electribe manual if you don’t know how to do this.
Select a preset rhythm pattern such as DISCO-1 on the CR-78.
Press START on the CR-78, and then press play on the Electribe. The CR-78 should start playing the preset rhythm sequence in time with the ER-1. Adjust the tempo on the Electribe and make sure the CR-78 follows.
Note that if both drum machines are currently playing but the CR-78 is not synced properly within the pattern, do the following to restart and resync everything:
Press START/STOP on the CR-78 to stop its sequencer.
Press stop on the Electribe sequencer.
Press START/STOP again on the CR-78. It won’t start yet, but will reset the sequencer to the beginning of the pattern.
Press play again on the Electribe. They should now be playing in sync.
PART 2 – Trigger CR-78 sounds using the Electribe
Hook the Kenton GATE (S-TRIG) to the CR-78 (TS-1) WRITE with a 1/8″ to 1/4″ patch cable.
Get the Electribe and CR-78 synced up and running as described in Part 1.
Press one of the PROGRAM RHYTHMs (I-IV) buttons on the CR-78. Make sure none of the preset rhythms are still playing, only the existing CR-78 programmed sequence (if its been programmed) should be playing.
Clear the CR-78 sequence by flipping the PROGRAMMER switch down to ALL, then press the CLEAR button, then set the PROGRAMMER switch back to PLAY mode. You have erased that memory slot, so the CR-78 should no longer be playing any sounds.
Select the CR-78 drum sound you want to trigger by using the PROGRAMMER INSTRUMENT SELECTOR knob.
Next, repeatedly hit one of the instrument pads on the Electribe, Percussion Synthesizer 1 is good. You should hear it trigger the selected CR-78 sound. The Electribe is sending a MIDI note to the Kenton each time you press the button, the Kenton then sends a gate signal for that note to the CR-78 which triggers the drum sound.
Program a simple one bar pattern on the Electribe’s x0x sequencer using that single Electribe part. You should hear the notes you set on the Electribe sequencer trigger in time on the CR-78 as the pattern is played.
PART 3 – Program the CR-78 user patterns
You should already have an Electribe sequence running and triggering the CR-78, and a CR-78 user pattern cleared and ready to program from Part 2.
Flip the PROGRAMMER switch up from PLAY mode to MEMORY mode. All four PROGRAMMER LEDs should briefly flash and the CR-78 will make a little sound. You should hear the Electribe triggering the CR-78 sequence that you are programming.
Let the programmed pattern run at least two bars, until you see the first CR-78 PROGRAMMER LED for TRACK 1 start flashing in time with the sequence you have programmed. Now flip the PROGRAMMER switch back to PLAY.
Manually clear the drum pattern on the Electribe sequencer by pressing the pads until none of them are lit, but keep the sequencer running. You should still hear the sequence you just programmed playing on the CR-78 sequencer even though the Electribe is no longer triggering it.
The CR-78 sequencer can save up to four instrument tracks this way. You will repeat the same basic procedure to program the next three CR-78 instruments:
Select the new CR-78 sound with the INSTRUMENT SELECTOR knob.
Program a drum sequence into the Electribe sequencer by pressing the pads as it is running, which should trigger the CR-78 sound in time with the pattern.
Flip the CR-78 PROGRAMMER switch up from PLAY to MEMORY, and let the pattern run for a couple bars. Wait for the CR-78 PROGRAMMER LED for TRACK 2-4 (depending on which instrument track is being programmed) to start flashing in time with the sequence being programmed, then flip the CR-78 PROGRAMMER switch back to PLAY.
Manually clear the drum sequence in the Electribe, and then listen to your sequence continue to be played by the CR-78 sequencer along with the other previously programmed instrument tracks for that rhythm sequence.
Once you have programmed all four instrument tracks, keep the CR-78 PROGRAMMER switch in PLAY position, select a new fifth CR-78 instrument using the INSTRUMENT SELECTOR, and you can now also play a fifth track using the Electribe’s sequencer. The accent track is a good choice, or you can use the Electribe’s sequencer to program a longer and more complicated percussion sequence, or whatever you want. Note you can also play along like this when preset rhythms are activated.
OTHER STUFF YOU CAN DO ONCE EVERYTHING IS WORKING
The CR-78 sequencer can save two bars worth of sequences for each track. Using the above method, we were basically filling both bars twice with the same repeated single bar Electribe sequence. To program both bars, just set the Electribe pattern loop length to 2, and program a two bar sequence on it like you would normally, and that pattern will get saved in the CR-78 sequencer. See the Electribe manual if you don’t know how to do this.
Also, you can set the Electribe pattern scale to use 1/32 notes instead of 1/16 notes… again, just set it up like you would if you wanted to program the Electribe to do the same thing, and program the CR-78 as above. This will let you program some nice quick hihat or snare rushes. Using this scale, a two bar sequence will fill all four 16 step sections of an Electribe sequence set to pattern length 4, which works out nicely.
The CR-78 can only save four patterns of four instruments each, which is pretty weak. Hey, it was the first drum machine with memory, cut it some slack. You can get around this by just saving the sequences in your Electribe and programming them into the CR-78 when needed. A good way to do this is to use a different Electribe instrument (Percussion Synthesizers 1-4 work nicely) for each of the CR-78 instrument sequences. Note that you can only program one CR-78 instrument track at a time, and the programming method described above can not distinguish between different note values being sent from the different Electribe parts. So, when you are programming the sequences into the CR-78, you will need to SOLO the appropriate Electribe part as you program the corresponding CR-78 parts one by one. A bit of a pain, but it goes pretty quick once you get it down…
Edit: I received an e-mail from someone with a MIDI-retrofitted CR-78 who tried this and had his CR-78 freak out. So if you are using a CR-78 with a MIDI kit added on, be careful about using this setup.
“The synchronisation worked perfectly for about an hour when all of a sudden the CR78 threw a fit and poured out multiple random rhythms at vastly fluctuating tempos whilst the 4 red Programmer Track lights went a little crazy (nb: the 4 user programmes are empty and not in use). I disconnected the Kenton and tried the CR78 alone… same thing again.” I don’t know any reason for this to happen, and it hasn’t happened with mine after a lot of use, but again use caution if you are using modified gear.
tom | 29-Jul-07 at 11:48 am | Permalink
Hi,
Great info! I’ve been trying to figure this out for a few months since I got my cr78.
I am just curious…. My cr78 is kind of noisy. I can’t tell if it is the VCAs or a grounding issue (I’m in the us, but this is a UK machine plugged through a step up tranformer that is not grounded.) I was just wondering if grounding will fix this or if that is just the way these old beasts are.
thanks for any info.
-tom
art | 30-Jul-07 at 11:32 am | Permalink
Hi Tom,
I think a certain amount of background noise is normal from the CR-78s… I recorded a short audio loop from mine (Disco 1 preset) so you could compare the hiss to your own:
http://www.submodern.com/slowburn/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/cr78disco.mp3
I have the US power version, and it doesn’t even have a third ground plug, so if your noise floor is similar to mine I’m guessing grounding isn’t the problem. My power is a bit dirty though and I’ve even had to return some brand new gear that picked up too much noise. Older analog stuff is just noisy sometimes… for some reason it bothers me less when it’s a vintage synth or drum machine, I figure it just adds a little extra something in there. If it really does bug you, you can always use a gate on it.
I’m glad you found the guide useful, good luck!
Art
slowburn :: Working on “puppy”, recording drums | 22-Aug-07 at 3:42 pm | Permalink
[...] Last night I set everything up to start recording the drum tracks for “puppy” using my CR-78 programming guide. I had already forgot some of the steps, so I’m glad I wrote it all down. There were a couple quirks. First, the ER-1 does not pass the MIDI clock data to through to the ER-1, so in order to sequence both the ER-1 and CR-78 sequencers using the Mac’s MIDI clock, I had to use a MIDI merge box. I hook everything up as described in the guide, but set the ER-1 to “Int” MIDI clock, and hook it’s MIDI OUT (which contains the notes from the ER-1 sequencer) and MIDI THRU (which contains the MIDI clock and start/stop from Logic) into a MIDI Merge box, which is then sent to the Kenton. Then everything works as you’d expect. Second, I’ve found out that Logic is really annoying about sending the start/stop data needed to get things synced properly. It basically only seems to work if you start recording at bar 1, the very beginning of the song. Very annoying if you only want to record four bars of drums five minutes into the song. Is this some sort of a feature? What were they thinking? I know it didn’t used to work this way… [...]
Brian Powers | 23-Nov-07 at 3:38 am | Permalink
Gents,
I bought a CR-78 on ebay a few years ago “as is” and as is was NO SOUNDS.. it powers up, lights come on, but not audio output. I would really like to get it fixed, do you know anyone who repairs them, i assume at a system board level??
**Planning to recreate the backing rythm patterns Phil Collins programmed for the Gensis record DUKE, it’s great stuff.
Thanks in advance for any advice..
Anonymous | 04-Dec-07 at 6:42 pm | Permalink
This is really clever. I’m mildy curious about picking up a CR-78 but the WS-1 price is a little offputting. Making a note of your post if I ever pick one up. Great work.
art | 07-Dec-07 at 3:42 pm | Permalink
Hi Brian,
You can get them repaired, I would try to find someone locally. Here’s a message board thread with some good references to analog synth techs:
http://www.vintagesynth.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4290
You could also try posting on the Analog Heaven mailing list, or look through their archives:
http://machines.hyperreal.org/Analogue-Heaven/
I know the most common problem with CR-78s is a leaky battery, and apparently it is a mess to fix. Hope you’re able to get yours working!
Thanks for the positive feedback, Anonymous. They are very cool drum machines, they are maybe overpriced at the moment, but maybe not… I have not regretted buying one, which I can’t say for a lot of other older stuff I’ve bought over the years. Just be wary of the leaky battery issue I mentioned above.
Philip | 02-Jul-08 at 1:06 pm | Permalink
Nicely written article I have been doing the same for years..one thing it has to be gate signal to program the CR-78 not a trigger..I’ve seen this written on the net..not true it wont work. I use an Roland R-70 and a kenton pro 2 to do the same thing…Anyway this system could be made better by the addition of a stop start signal so you wouldnt have to keep manualy pressing both machines buttons to get them in sync..the kentons have dyn sync yeh? Well..get a din lead plug it in the kenton, chop up the other end and solder the stop/start gate signal lead to a jack, plug the jack in the stop/start Jack on the CR-78…much better!
Steven | 07-Jul-08 at 5:21 am | Permalink
Is it possible to let the CR-78 be master and, say, sync it with a Micro Korg? Would be sweet to sync the preprogrammed patterns on the CR-78 with the arpeggiator on the Micro Korg.
T. Spampinato | 29-Jan-09 at 1:58 pm | Permalink
Hi
Can one use any midi sequencer as trigger? I have a Yamaha QY10.
A comment would be appreciated.
Best Regards
Thierry
art | 29-Jan-09 at 9:16 pm | Permalink
Steven, not sure about using the CR-78 as the master. It has a trigger out, but I’m not sure what it’s sending there since each instrument would need to have an individual trigger for it to work as you are suggesting. Probably just clock out…
T, there’s nothing special about the Electribe other than being inexpensive and having a visual x0x style sequencer, any other MIDI sequencer that sends clock and notes should work also.
Thierry | 31-Jan-09 at 3:58 am | Permalink
Thanks a lot!
fx23 | 29-Nov-09 at 12:30 pm | Permalink
hi! ive just noticed my cr78 has two extra jack sockets at the bottom at the back, they are unmarked but look like the ones at the top? any idea what they might be? i thought they would be for the programmer until i saw your pic
J
rhubarb jackson | 11-Mar-10 at 12:46 pm | Permalink
Can the CR-78 tempo be controlled by external source without using MIDI? I’m thinking about getting a CR-8000 because it has a digital tempo display, and sync it to the CR-78 to control tempo. Any idea if this would work? It would be nice to know exactly what BPM the CR-78 is playing at, but I can’t tell that from the tempo knob alone.
mike | 10-Dec-10 at 10:23 am | Permalink
Hey, just found this link. My question is this – are the programmed notes quantized on the CR-78? I know there are ways to program it using other pedals, but the notes are not quantized, so the beat is not perfect. Thanks!
tapedseams | 23-Jan-11 at 4:38 pm | Permalink
Thanks for this, it makes total sense – I can’t believe I never worked it out before. I’m going to try using my 606 trigger outs to program the CR with my CSQ-600 to sync them up. WS-1 be damned!
EDIT: Just read the comment about trigger V gate. Hmm, have to run 606 > Pro-1 > CR-78. What a PITA!
Richard | 30-Mar-13 at 7:51 am | Permalink
Hi – I’ve only just found this (and only just found a CR-78), but it definitely seems the way to go. I would purchase the Electribe simply for programming the CR-78, so what’s the cheapest model I’d need? – there seem to be a lot of them and I’ve never used one. Alternatively could you do the same trick with a 606/808/909? I have various Midi converters, gate converters and din sync equipment, so I can probably work it out if one of the Roland x0x boxes would do the same thing. Otherwise I’ll just get the Electribe and follow your instructions! Thanks, Ric
Jin | 19-Apr-13 at 5:20 pm | Permalink
Hi, i have cr-78 and i noticed that it goes faster than other cr-78.
Without connecting with any midi or cables, just alone playing fast.
Even i turn down the tempo knob to the sliwest tempo its fast..
I checked with youtube videos that shows other cr-78, i set same setting played buy definitely faster..
Do you know why? Or how i can tix it??? I really want to yse my cr-78 but cannot use it with this condition.
Please send me email whereisjinnow@gmail.com
SON - STUFF & DIY | Pearltrees | 28-Dec-16 at 2:49 am | Permalink
[...] Slowburn :: Programming a Roland CR-78 using a Korg Electribe’s sequencer. I recently bought a Roland CR-78. It’s an old drum machine from the 80’s, the first one from Roland that let you program and save your own patterns instead of just using presets. We used samples of it on both our first album and the last EP, it has some great drum sounds that we keep falling back on. I’ve wanted one for a long time, and have been patiently waiting to find one in nice condition at a decent price. [...]